Connections Between the 2017 Las Vegas Shooting and 2018 Thousand Oaks Shooting

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Last updated: March 12, 2025

BackgroundEdit

1. 2017 Las Vegas Shooting

   • Date: October 1, 2017
   • Location: Route 91 Harvest music festival, Las Vegas, Nevada
   • Perpetrator: Stephen Paddock, 64, who killed 60 people and injured 867 before committing suicide.
   • Details: Paddock fired from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel into a crowd of 22,000 concertgoers. Many survivors formed close-knit support groups afterward.

2. 2018 Thousand Oaks Shooting

   • Date: November 7, 2018
   • Location: Borderline Bar & Grill, Thousand Oaks, California
   • Perpetrator: Ian David Long, 28, a Marine Corps veteran with PTSD, who killed 12 (including himself) and injured 16.

Overlap in Victims and SurvivorsEdit

Several survivors of the Las Vegas shooting were present at the Thousand Oaks attack, highlighting a tragic and unusual pattern:

1. Telemachus “Tel” Orfanos

   • Las Vegas: Survived the 2017 attack.

   • Thousand Oaks: Killed at the Borderline Bar. His mother, Susan Schmidt-Orfanos, became a vocal advocate for gun control, stating:

     

     “I don’t want prayers, I don’t want thoughts, I want gun control.”1

2. Brendan Kelly

   • Las Vegas: Survived the festival shooting.
   • Thousand Oaks: Escaped the Borderline attack. He described the bar as a “safe space” for Vegas survivors who regularly gathered there for support14.

3. Nicholas Champion

   • Las Vegas: Survived the massacre.

   • Thousand Oaks: Present during the shooting and later stated:

     “It’s the second time in about a year and a month that this has happened... We’re all a big family, and unfortunately this family got hit twice.”1

Why the Overlap?Edit

• Shared Community: The Borderline Bar was a popular gathering spot for young adults, college students, and veterans in Ventura County. After the Las Vegas shooting, survivors from the region began meeting there regularly, forming a support network.
• Psychological Impact: Survivors reported seeking normalcy and camaraderie at the bar, which inadvertently became a recurring target due to its role as a community hub.

Broader Context of U.S. Gun ViolenceEdit

Both shootings occurred amid a surge in U.S. mass shootings:

• 2017–2018: In the 13 months between the two attacks, over 1,200 mass shootings (defined as 4+ victims) occurred in the U.S.1.
• Legislation: Neither shooter had criminal records, and both used legally purchased firearms. Long’s Glock pistol had an illegal extended magazine in California2.

Memorials and LegacyEdit

• Healing Garden: In 2019, a memorial featuring 12 stone benches (one for each victim) was dedicated in Thousand Oaks. Survivors and families emphasized “moving forward, not moving on”4.
• Advocacy: Victims’ families, including Tel Orfanos’ parents, continue lobbying for stricter gun control and mental health reforms.

Key StatisticsEdit

Event	Fatalities	Injured	Firearm Used
Las Vegas (2017)	60	867	Modified semi-automatic rifles
Thousand Oaks (2018)	12	16	.45-caliber Glock pistol

SourcesEdit

1. BBC News: Thousand Oaks Shooting
2. Wikipedia: Thousand Oaks Shooting
3. Wikipedia: 2017 Las Vegas Shooting
4. ABC7: Borderline Shooting Memorial

This article synthesizes verified reports and does not endorse conspiracy theories. Connections reflect documented survivor accounts and geographic proximity.

Yes, there were at least 50 survivors of the 2017 Las Vegas Shooting present at the 2018 Borderline Bar and Grill shooting in Thousand Oaks, California. This was confirmed by Nicholas Champion, a Las Vegas survivor who was at the Borderline during the attack. He stated that 50 to 60 people from the Route 91 Harvest Festival were present at the bar when the shooting occurred.

Key DetailsEdit

• Las Vegas Shooting Survivors: Many survivors of the Route 91 Harvest Festival, where 58 people were killed and hundreds injured, had formed a close-knit support community.
• Borderline Bar as a Gathering Spot: The bar was a popular venue for survivors, particularly those from Ventura County, California, who often met there for events like College Country Night.
• Overlap in Victims: Telemachus "Tel" Orfanos, a Las Vegas survivor, was killed at the Borderline shooting. Other survivors, like Brendan Kelly and Nicholas Champion, were present but escaped unharmed.

ContextEdit

The Borderline Bar became a "safe space" for Las Vegas survivors, making the overlap between the two events particularly tragic. This connection underscores the profound and lasting impact of mass shootings on survivors and their communities.

SourcesEdit

• ABC News: Las Vegas Survivors at Borderline
• CBS News: Las Vegas Survivors at Borderline
• BBC News: Thousand Oaks Shooting

Citations:

1. https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/national-international/route-91-survivor-shot-killed-in-borderline-bar-shooting/171318/
2. https://time.com/5448960/las-vegas-survivors-california-shooting/
3. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-las-vegas-shooting-survivors-hit-again-at-thousand-oaks-coped-2018-11
4. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-bar-shooting-survivors-of-las-vegas-massacre-were-at-borderline-bar-and-grill/
5. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46150847
6. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/a-surreal-shock-las-vegas-shooting-survivors-live-through-california-massacre/2018/11/08/681a330a-e3b3-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html
7. https://abc30.com/borderline-bar-and-grill-thousand-oaks-route-91-concert/5686554/
8. https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-borderline-mass-shooting-scene-20181108-story.html

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Answer from Perplexity: pplx.ai/share

1. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46150847
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Oaks_shooting
3. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Las_Vegas_shooting
4. https://abc7news.com/borderline-shooting-thousand-oaks-anniversary-mass/5679023/
5. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/us/shooting-california-thousand-oaks.html
6. https://www.krem.com/article/news/nation-world/some-thousand-oaks-victims-survived-mass-shooting-in-las-vegas-reports-say/507-612867414
7. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/a-surreal-shock-las-vegas-shooting-survivors-live-through-california-massacre/2018/11/08/681a330a-e3b3-11e8-b759-3d88a5ce9e19_story.html
8. https://time.com/5448960/las-vegas-survivors-california-shooting/
9. https://www.businessinsider.com/how-las-vegas-shooting-survivors-hit-again-at-thousand-oaks-coped-2018-11
10. https://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-surviviors-at-thousand-oaks-shooting-2018-11
11. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/us/las-vegas-victims-names.html
12. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/02/us/politics/mass-shootings-young-men-guns.html
13. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/las-vegas-victims-have-connections-to-dc-area/29440/
14. https://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-shooting-mother-father-dead/story?id=50229707
15. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/thousand-oaks-victims-of-the-borderline-bar-shooting-in-california-today-2018-11-08/
16. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2025/02/children-mass-shootings.html
17. https://abc7.com/thousand-oaks-mass-shooting-borderline-bar-and-grill-dylan-short-survivors/5678543/
18. https://everytownresearch.org/report/guns-and-violence-against-women/
19. https://vccf.org/we-are-thousand-oaks-strong-community-gathers-at-vigil-to-mourn-shooting-victims/